The Scottish Government

An Independent Scotland

Friday, November 30, 2007

The White Paper says: For Scotland to achieve full independence, the UK Parliament must cease to have competence to legislate for Scotland and the UK Government must cease to have competence in respect of executive action in Scotland. Correspondingly, the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government would assume the full range of competence, duties and responsibilities accorded to sovereign states under international law.

This blog is now closed to further comment.

Comments

[Latest First] | [Earliest First] Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69]

• 571. PMK - Ayrshire

  Monday, April 21, 2008 21:13

  569. Mike King,
  
  It really is the crucial point isn't it? The national interest argument ultimately comes down to: is Scotland/England "your nation"/"your country", or do you identify with the larger "British" tag? Much of the discussion in the past months has returned to that ... and here we are again.
  
  The Tony Blair point I made earlier was partially in jest, but I am sure you knew that.
  
  I wish more Scottish Unionists were able to engage - in the terms you often do - of feelings of belonging, community and loyalty. It might lead them to rely less on negative stereotyping. After all, both sides can do that very easily, and it gets us nowhere. Then again, I wish more Scottish Unionists were willing to engage generally; and not hide away in their exclusive "constitutional commission" refusing to discuss the very issues and possibilities that cause them to meet. However, I will be very surprised if that exclusive/isolationist stance lasts to the next Holyrood election – it would be political suicide for Liberal, Tory or Labour to enter the 2011 contest denying the need for a referendum on meaningful change. Therefore (as an advocate of independence), I hope they do.
  

• 572. Mike King - Birmingham

  Tuesday, April 22, 2008 16:19

  572. PMK - Ayrshire
  Monday, April 21, 2008 21:13
  
  Re: “It really is the crucial point isn't it? The national interest argument ultimately comes down to: is Scotland/England "your nation"/"your country", or do you identify with the larger "British" tag?”
  
  You are absolutely right. You & I are both patriots & probably feel the same about our countries as each other.
  
  Unfortunately I don’t think I could ever feel about England the way you do Scotland; for me the Union flag touches me in a way I don’t think the cross of St George ever could.
  
  Personally I despair of Labour everywhere & of the Scottish Tories specifically!
  
  If the Union is going to go then I’d rather see it go down fighting taking on the SNP head on in a referendum (stressing the positive aspects of being British) then quietly creeping away from it …..
  
  

• 573. Trevor Swistchew - Edinburgh

  Thursday, April 24, 2008 19:07

  Independence will come
  do not doubt it
  Unionist politics failed Scotland
  now Unionist leaders are failing England
  old Labour are what the Who might be singing about
  "Here comes the new boss
  same as the old boss"
  Wont Get Fooled Again
  Independence is the future.
  You will see.

• 574. PMK - Ayrshire

  Monday, April 28, 2008 16:04

  I am conflicted by the stance taken by most Scottish unionists. On the one hand, I wish they would engage and stand up for what they are supposed to believe in. Naturally, as a convinced nationalist, I reckon their arguments are the weaker - and this would be exposed by an open debate. Perhaps their [Labour, Liberal and Tory] refusal to engage betrays a lurking fear that this may be the case? On the other hand, their current strategy - which seems to be hoping the problem goes away - is thoroughly counter-productive for their cause, and therefore welcome.
  
  Incidentally, I also wish that many more Scottish unionists were advocates for something rather than mere opponents (of the Jackie Baillie/Gordon Brown/Wendy Alexander variety): rubbishing change, and offering very little in terms of an alternative vision. Until they engage fully in debate, I doubt the current dynamic (slow decline in support for the union) will change very much.
  
  #573, Mike King - While I recognise we are both advocates for our respective and overlapping, nations/countries/polities (take your pick); I would personal shy away from the term "patriot" which you used earlier. I am quite happy with "nationalist" myself. "Patriots" tend to be either dead, or willing to kill. A purely semantic point - but I feel "patriot" has some rather unfortunate connotations linking it with physical conflict. Clearly you view it as a neutral descriptive term, I do not; perhaps you feel that "nationalist" is tainted in a similar way?! As I say, I agree with the idea that we are both advocates for our chosen countries, but I find that particular term problematic.

• 575. Thomas Porter - Scotland, Aberdeen

  Monday, April 28, 2008 19:55

  572. PMK - Ayrshire
  
  You wished that more Scottish Unionists were willing to engage their opinion on the Union?
  
  It is quite difficult because perhaps there are very few Scottish Unionists?
  
  Or maybe the Scottish Unionists really have no clue why Scotland should stay in the United Kingdom?
  
  I sure do not see any reason.

• 576. PMK - Ayrshire

  Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:15

  With Wendy and Gordon's Unionist Commission exposed for what it is - a talking shop for under-employed Peers - perhaps more forward thinking unionists will back full engagement in a real debate on Scotland's constitutional future. After all, if Purcell at City Hall and former FM McLeish can accept independence as an option - anyone can.

• 577. Keith B - Ross-shire

  Wednesday, April 30, 2008 22:01

  As a life-long, left-leaning nationalist and republican, I am heartened by the first year of SNP government. I think they are doing a great job in a very difficult position (minority in Holyrood, hostile Unionist government in Westminster). Labour, Lib-Dems and Tories cannot match them! We have seen a lot of fresh thinking - though maybe some of it would have been better left to simmer a bit longer - and no doubt more to come. I think reducing the number of local councils is a priority but can't really be tackled until after the next election. As far as I am concerned, the SNP have demonstrated that they are up to the mark and we should hope for a referendum at which I, for one, would be voting for 'independence' - full devolution of all powers to Holyrood, hopefully within the EU.

• 578. Mike King - Birmingham

  Thursday, May 1, 2008 23:16

  RE: 575. PMK - Ayrshire, Monday, April 28, 2008 16:04
  
  “A purely semantic point - but I feel "patriot" has some rather unfortunate connotations linking it with physical conflict. Clearly you view it as a neutral descriptive term, I do not; perhaps you feel that "nationalist" is tainted in a similar way?!”
  
  I don’t see anything wrong with being ‘patriotic’, quite the reverse actually.
  
  And whilst I don’t strongly object to the term ‘nationalist’ in does - for me - have some associations with IRA type terrorism & also BNP type nationalism.
  
  Both of which I totally oppose.
  
  So yes, I do see the word as slightly tainted but possibly not as much as you see the word ‘patriot’.
  

• 579. SMC - Edinburgh

  Friday, May 2, 2008 08:22

  Has it occured to anyone that they might get more Unionist comments on this webpage if they actually were displayed by the moderator? I and several others have made comments backing the Union (the best thing for Scotland), but they have not been displayed. Is this some bias on the part of this SNP inspired survey?
  
  The decline of support for the Union is not occuring, what is occuring is a decline over the whole of the UK in support for the Labour party, which leads to increased support to the SNP, who unfortunately formed the main opposition party in Scotland since the Conservatives commited suicide over the poll tax.
  
  We have a majority of Unionist parties in Holyrood, and the last election was on a farce, with 10% of the votes discounted. Scotland does not want, or need independence, what it needs is to make the most of the what it has at the moment, by full and enthusiastic participation in the Union.

• 580. PMK - Ayrshire

  Friday, May 2, 2008 13:49

  #580 SMC - Presumably you would back a referendum on independence then? To test your theory, which goes against recent polling data, that Scots do not want it. If so, welcome to the debate.
  
  The Scottish Claim of Right of 1988/9, signed by Labour, SNP and Liberal MPs alike, acknowledges the right of the people to decide their constitutional future. It’s time that it was invoked and the huge hypocrisy of the unionist side exposed. You cannot simply impose a new settlement on Scotland as Gordon Brown and the unionist commission seek to. The current settlement was decided by referendum, any future one must be similarly legitimised.
  
  #579 Mike King - I suppose my dislike of the term "patriot" is also partly based on the ability to reverse it and brand opponents "unpatriotic", as was fashionable for a time recently in the States. "Patriotism" also maybe implies more state-nationalism (of the status-quo); whereas "nationalism" by itself I think of more as either against the current situation, or neutral.
  
  In any case, the language used is always so important in framing any debate. Its interesting that we hold such differing views on two crucial terms.

[Latest First] | [Earliest First] Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69]