The Scottish Government

An Independent Scotland

Friday, November 30, 2007

The White Paper says: For Scotland to achieve full independence, the UK Parliament must cease to have competence to legislate for Scotland and the UK Government must cease to have competence in respect of executive action in Scotland. Correspondingly, the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government would assume the full range of competence, duties and responsibilities accorded to sovereign states under international law.

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Comments

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• 341. Gordon Murray - Livingston

  Friday, January 4, 2008 16:05

  #338. Ellis Sims - Gosport
  Tuesday, January 1, 2008 16:50
  
  Shame you have so little regard for history or you might appreciate why HM Loyal Opposition at Westminster are as popular in Scotland as a fart in a lift.
  
  The Tories, in Scotland the party that its supporters apparently dare not speak its name?
  You surely weren't refering to the Liberal Democrats, were you?
  
  In your non-historical debating you cite the former MP for Dundee 1918-22, but for colour let me respectfully offer you this:
  'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it' George Santayana
  
  Thank you for the reassuring notion that a party might appear(at Westminster presumably)and deign to allow Scotland for one to restore her former national dignity. Awfully good of someone.
  
  Newsflash: they're here in Scotland already, and their leader is in residence at Bute House in Edinburgh.
  
  Best of British luck to you with your ambition to see devolution taking off in 'the rest of the UK'.
  Scotland, Wales, and N.Ireland have already started the process of claiming theirs.
  
  

• 342. Gordon - Singapore

  Sunday, January 6, 2008 06:20

  Its great to read a lively discussion on such an important matter as this.
  
  Having been away from Scotland for 15years or so and looking at it from outside, it appears the majority of Unionists arguments for keeping the status quo seem to be founded on some fear that Scotland will fall apart if independence is gained.
  
  Scotland surely deserves its own decision making powers and pride in being an independent country, if we look at what Scotland has brought to the world why wouldnt we be able to cut it on our own?
  
  Alex Salmond seems very able to lead a country into independence, whenever I read his views it seems he is head and shoulders above his opposite numbers.
  
  Reading the Unionists writings on this thread its still not clear how anyone could doubt Scotland would not be in a better position if control came from Edinburgh instead of London?
  
  The political climate in the last 20years or so has been for larger nations to break up into their component parts (Yugoslavia et all. Friends of mine who are from these newly formed states (Croatia, Latvia etc) have expressed that having autonomy and localised power has brought about healthier debate and interest on their countrys future.
  
  The UK is not even a country waiting for break up just some strange archaic treaty that has no real relevance to todays world.
  
  The wheels for full independence have been set in motion, it will be the peoples will that will decide it but it seems to be definetly coming.
  
  I am sure most people in Scotland realise how people round the world see us (the Tartan Army is welcomed round the world), is it not time to be seen as a country in its own right again?
  
  
  PS If Alex Salmond reads this I would like to apologise to you for being cheeky to you in the chip shop in Strichen around 15 years ago!

• 343. Mike King - Birmingham

  Sunday, January 6, 2008 16:55

  Re: 339. RAD - KL
  
  Interesting post - disagree with most of it but nice to see the SNP version of history put in such a readable way!
  
  Polite question: are you currently living in Scotland?
  
  If not, would you return to do so should it ever leave the Union?
  

• 344. RAD - KL

  Monday, January 7, 2008 17:21

  #344: Mike King, Birmingham.
  Given your pro-Union stance, guaranteed you would disagree with most if not everything I posted.
  That said, would like to see Unionists properly argue a case for maintaining the Union, including why Scots should singularly be seen as too naive/ incompetent to run their own affairs. A shared 300-year history is not enough excuse to maintain a shotgun "marriage".
  Re. your question of residence: My main base is overseas - though in Scotland for the moment.
  Would I return permanently should Scotland gain independence? Doubtful.

• 345. G Goodall - Glenrothes

  Tuesday, January 8, 2008 12:53

  #345
  
  Good honest contribution. There were six of us to start with living in Scotland, four of whom decided to make their life overseas. There are now only four of us surviving of whom one lives in Scotland and three live overseas and have no intention of returning. Guess who is most enthusiastic about independence! The ones who live overseas!! Surprise, Surprise.
  
  If independence is good for the Scottish people then I would have to be convinced, not the exiles, as I at least have a vote. If the current administration can do little more than complain about being downtrodden by Westminster then they do not, in my opinion, make a case for independence.
  
  Let's see what's on offer. 'Trust us, we'll see you okay'? sorry, but that's a joke!
  
  'We have the most ambitious plan to reduce carbon emissions by 80% by 2050?'
  
  'We have ambitions to reduce primary school classes to 18?'
  
  'We have ambitions to provide free education to all at HE level?'
  
  No plans in place as to how these targets can be achieved, but they expect the public to swallow the bait.
  
  When a high percentage of the population have paid contributions to the State for NHS and Pensions it would be reasonable to ask where and how the finance for these provisions will be raised. We keep hearing how well other similar countries are doing but fail to mention the higher income tax and VAT regimes in place to pay for these benfits in these places.
  
  A little bit of honesty might go down well with the electorate.
  
  We also note that Sir Sean has moved from Spain to the Carribean but still supports independence for the country he has deserted.
  
  

• 346. RAD - KL

  Tuesday, January 8, 2008 16:49

  #346: G Goodall
  Why have so many Scots gone overseas?
  Moreover, the ones who live overseas are more enthusiastic - perhaps because we understand what it means to live in independent (forward looking) nations - and want the same for our own.
  In many cases, those of us who live overseas have also married overseas, etc, and are part of the social fabric of other countries. Our spouses/children are not readily welcome in the UK either.
  As I also stated, one needs to look at the socio-economic development elsewhere to understand how and why Scotland is missing out and lagging behind too.
  I can understand a social union with the rest of the UK - a Commonwealth perhaps - but cannot understand Scotland's continued status as a poor relative, where decisions are made outwith the country and not for the good of its citizens.
  It seems Scotland does not want the Conservatives, meanwhile, Labour has had stewardship of Scotland for 50 years. One just has to look at the Labour benches at Holyrood and Westminister to see what that has delivered. Examine the situation in Lanarkshire/Glasgow, then look at the likes of Singapore - and all the city state has achieved without the resources Scotland enjoys. So, if Labour can't deliver, Conservatives are unwanted - who/what does that leave?
  I appreciate my children being given opportunities and growing up in a "can do" society. Despite many achievements/resources, etc, Scotland at the moment still lacks aspiration, however, I can also see SNP has initiated a change there.
  You state - "we have ambitions": at least the SNP are ambitious for Scotland, contrast that with aims of the unionist parties and one understands why membership of the SNP is growing and why Mr Salmond continues to enjoy his honeymoon period.
  Further - "Trust us and you'll see". The SNP have no record in government, now they are asking to be judged on their achievements, etc - hence vote on Independence, not now, but 2010 when they have a record to stand on. Seems fair?
  Meanwhile, Unionists have yet to explain the "Dividend".
  
  

• 347. John B Dick - Rothesay

  Tuesday, January 8, 2008 18:58

  I am surprised that the SNP leadership have not updated the pro-independence arguments in the light of devolution.
  
  There is now a whole new reason for independence: that Scotland now has a better, modern parliament in which the principles, procedures and even the seating arrangements have been thought out to favour good practice rather than having evolved by too-little-too-late reforms grudgingly and reactively conceded.
  
  If you list the issues in the recent election that lost the Labour led coalition support of formerly loyal voters,you can see that they are the result of a failure to differentiate from UK New Labour top-down party control using patronage, party whips and the royal prerogative to marginalise cabinet MP's and party.
  
  Donald Dewar told me 50 years ago that a Home Rule parliament could be a model for reform of Westminster, and I think that this was as much in his mind as better governance for Scotland.
  
  I wish I had asked him "What if Westminster didn't reform?"
  
  Would he have said that "Scotland will be independent when people vote for it"?

• 348. Ellis Sims - Gosport

  Tuesday, January 8, 2008 20:14

  Gordon Murray - Livingston, hello.
  
  Has Devolution REALLY taken off in the UK? Firstly Northern ireland has just again received its Green Light after several years, Wales has a Assembly, while Scotland has a Parliament and England has nothing AT ALL.
  
  To refer to your Quote, what mistakes will Scotland repeat? Maybe a great many, like every nation on this planet.
  
  Can i raise the question. Where has ANY Pro-Union writer on these Forums said anything about Scottish People being incompetant??? Give me a good example of this.
  
  I believe that Scotland could run its affairs in a good way if it became independent, but not in a way which justifies leaving the Union. The Union offers these things (Pros of Independence) but in a far better enviroment where we can cooperate far better as one Nation than 2-4.

• 349. Mike King - Birmingham

  Tuesday, January 8, 2008 21:37

  Re: RAD #345: The bit in your post I agreed with was your comments on Paul Morris!
  
  For me the Union isn't about presenting a logical argument - its about how you 'feel'. I feel British & always will do no matter what the consequences of that might be in terms of taxes, wealth etc.
  
  If you like, I see the Union flag & I feel something I don't feel when I see the flag of St George.
  
  My support for the Union has nothing to do with doubting Scotland's ability to run its own affairs; I'm proud to be in the same country as you (& Wales & N. Ireland)
  
  Which is why I've said all along if you don't feel British then vote SNP & break up the Union.
  
  Its also why I would never choose to live outside of GB for any length of time - its my country & its where I belong!
  
  Mike
  

• 350. David Mccallum - Oban

  Tuesday, January 8, 2008 21:56

  It may be a strange comparison to some, but one of the reasons for the fall of communism in eastern europe was that the people no longer believed in it. When an official in Moscow informed collective farmers several thousand miles away to harvest, they had no choice but to obey. The fact that the crops where not ready or had rotted made no difference. When the westminster collective increase interest rates to slow down an overheating southern economy this makes our rather tepid economy in the north even less inviting. It punishes us for others success/excess (whichever fits).
  Im not envious, if money was my passion i'd no longer be living here,but still i must make a living. Id like to be able to afford to heat the house properly in winter, that would be nice!
  All that oil and we're bloody freezing.
  If the real power over us was held by us and we got the government we voted for i'd at least feel that i could take my gripes to my own people. Who knows they may even listen.
  For now tho we have no real democracy, we get the govenment the south votes for. We even get told that Scots have taken control of westminster, strange how our fifty odd mp's can dictate to over five hundred english mp's?
  Quite a feat that,if we're that strong a race it should be easy for us to shrug off our dependancy problem.
  Maybe im behind the time's and democracy is no longer deemed important, or is it just north of the border that we dont care who runs our country? Well i for one bloody well care, please sort it out folk.
  

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