The Scottish Government

An Independent Scotland

Friday, November 30, 2007

The White Paper says: For Scotland to achieve full independence, the UK Parliament must cease to have competence to legislate for Scotland and the UK Government must cease to have competence in respect of executive action in Scotland. Correspondingly, the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government would assume the full range of competence, duties and responsibilities accorded to sovereign states under international law.

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Comments

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• 331. Mike King - Birmingham

  Friday, December 28, 2007 13:51

  Re Kev's post Dec 27 & his comment "Lastly your Union has contribute greatly to many of the worlds great atrocity's.."
  
  There are always 2 sides to every thing but putting it simplisticly if you feel that way then of course you must vote for whichever party will take Scotland out of the Union.
  
  As I said in my first post "If you don't feel British then vote SNP"
  
  For my part - on balance - I'm proud of what Britain has done over the last 300 years & always will be.
  
  Oh yes, re WW2: we (the UK) stood alone against Hitler for almost 2 years whislt for some of that time Hitler was allied with Russia. The US were drawn into WW2 - they did not enter it willingly.
  
  I do not doubt Scotland's contribution even if outside of the Union but believe England & Scotland's contribution together is stronger.
  
  The sum of the Union is greater than the parts!

• 332. Ellis Sims - Gosport

  Friday, December 28, 2007 16:05

  Hmmm Kev. So the pre-union attempts of colonisation by Scotland, how do you explain them? Have you noticed that Scotland and Nova Scotia, contain the work Scot in it? No coincedence, it was a Scottish settlement.
  
  About WW2, mike king was reffering to the Darkest days as in when we had NO allies. Most peaceful continent on earth? You heard of Yugoslavia? Former Soviet Union? Kosovo?
  
  Its nieve to think that we would have a future war with the country closest to us. You haven't heard the latest. The Scottish nationalists keep on saying how good Globelisation is, Globelisation means their is a greater chance of travel and commerce etc but also to rage warfare. An example is of this so called 'illegal war' in Iraq.
  
  Indeed the war isn't popular, but it has toppled an tyranical dictator. Do you not remember History class? Hitler wasn't a threat in the early days, then we waited 9 years and hey presto the most Destructive war in history.
  
  Just because America and Britain were the only countries with enough b**ls to talk the talk and walk the walk, unlike the rest of the security council, doesn't justify making Scotland independent.
  

• 333. Calum anderson - Glenrothes Fife

  Friday, December 28, 2007 17:47

  I am a Scot a citizen of Scotland a sovereign nation, I am not nor will i ever be a British subject, I am not now nor will i ever be subject to anyone. The independence of Scotland is paramount to our future as a people and a nation. We must remember that this is an achievable goal and a most important one, With independence comes cost's and risks we are all willing to take. It will be hard work at first as it was for Norway and southern Ireland, they stuck to the task and in the end they made it. however there is one difference between the two examples. Ireland went into the EU and for this they gained some wealth but the most important thing is they gave up their freedom to a new and very dangerous master. who intends to dominate with out exception.
  
  We as Scot must have our freedom we must get rid of the master who has used and abused us for their own gain with no regard for Scotland. Why would we want to rid of our selves of an uncaring master just to give it to another. That makes no sense and gains us nothing. The Franco-German alliance that now threatens us once again can not be allowed to dominate us as they tried in WWII. Scots invented the right to freedom don't give it to anyone but us Scots. i would once again fight for my Scotland's freedom with out fear. i would leave my Scotland's shores forever if it gave its freedom entire to anyone other than Scotland. We need to work with our neighbors in the world, not for them and under them but as free equals. Scotland is an amazing nation, loved all over the world by everyone but not by WESTMINSTER IN LONDON.
  
  If we are not to have freedom then let Scotland die a peaceful death as it will with all Scots

• 334. Mike King - Birmingham

  Friday, December 28, 2007 21:29

  RE: 328. Paul Morris - London, UK
  
  Of course 'they' will print your comments! This web site is run by/for the SNP & your sort of bigoted hatred of Scotland is JUST the kind of thing the SNP love to publish.
  
  Of course the current set up with Scots MPs voted on wholly English matters is wrong but don't blame the Scottish people for that - blame the corrupt Labour govt. that created the situation hoping to retain power in both Parliaments.
  

• 335. Patrick Kirkwood - Ayrshire

  Saturday, December 29, 2007 14:41

  It is clear that Ellis Sims has nothing whatever to add to the debate. Thank you livilion for pointing out the very obvious flaws in his "argument". Can I suggest that those actually interested in discussing the future rather than debating the past ignore Mr Sims posts as they are clearly irrelevant at best? As much as I personally dislike Labour and their previous mafia-style ownership of much of the west of Scotland it is hugely overstating the case to claim they alone are the major problem in modern day Scotland - for me it is clear the Union is holding us back far more than anyone government of either colour.

• 336. Ellis Sims - Gosport

  Tuesday, January 1, 2008 16:43

  Excuse me Patrick Kirkwood? IM talking about the past? Im not the one opting for Scotland to return to a status it had 300 years ago. I do believe you want to sacre me off because you know that me and fellow Union lovers are Right and you are Wrong. WE see the REAL problems, you see EXTREME solutions to petty problems.
  
  Get with the times Nationalists, the Union as a whole needs a new goverment not for it to splinter.
  
  We can speculate saying "oh Scotland WOULD have still fought on OUR side in WW2" how can you say that, thats pure speculation. I mean if history did take a different turn and Scotland didn't join together with England to create the state of Britain, then it is more than likely that Scotland would of created a Allience once more with France. When WW2 comes along, side with France and when France along with Norway capitulated maybe Scotland would have seen Nazi occupation as less of a threat than English cooperation. Hypothetically speaking. Thats just more conjecture.
  
  So DON'T say im talking about the past when im sideing for Scotlands best FUTURE interests.

• 337. Ellis Sims - Gosport

  Tuesday, January 1, 2008 16:50

  Another post, WITHOUT historical debating.
  
  So, Patrick Kirkwood, you would put all Scotlands 'problems' on the fact it is in the union plus the Union is holding it back? Hmmm, thats a bit silly, tell me Patrick Kirkwood, who is running the Union at the moment? What party does the Scottish Secretary belong to?
  
  If you said Labour you would be correct.
  
  Because it IS Labour who are causing discontent in Scotland over seperatism, their "mafia" policies as you so call them are Top-Down Central management. Another party could come into power and offer the direct opposite to Top Down policies and allow Devolution in Scotland and the rest of the UK to really take off and allow Scotland to fulfil its ambitions WHILE staying in the Union.
  
  Oh and by the way, was it Churchill who said that "don't look to the past to find solutions for the Future"

• 338. RAD - KL

  Wednesday, January 2, 2008 19:52

  #328 (Paul Morris):
  Gather your opinions have been acquired from English editions of Daily Mail, Daily Express, perhaps even the Telegraph? You accuse Scots of racism, yet it would appear that English dailies and media personalities can spout (at best) half-truths bordering on the racist - about Scotland - with something akin to impunity. This is something you will not readily see in Scotland. Meanwhile, craven politicians of a "Scottish persuasion" appear unable to challenge such editorials and opinions - which appear to be gaining credence in England. Labour, etc, claim to be in favour of the Union, yet are witless when it comes to defending it, and are proving to be the best recruiting sergeants for the SNP and Independence.
  
  As for posts in favour of the Union or that the sum of the Union is greater than its parts. The Union is long past its sell-by date. Unionists fail to properly argue how Scotland has benefited from the 300-year marriage – instead they resort to scare tactics about failing economy, financial black holes, manipulating GERS, while lying about the value of “Scotland’s oil”. They like to argue too that Independence equals parochialism, however, it is the Union itself that has left Scotland a backwater. Winnie Ewing got it right when she stated: “Stop the world we want to get on”.
  
  Those in favour of the Union, should venture further than the resorts of Ibiza and the Canary Islands, to see how other countries have benefited from independence. Not just the “arc of prosperity” – but countries of the former Empire (that folks in the UK like to call Third World). The infrastructure/wealth seen in the Gulf and Asia rival that of Western Europe. Scots argue over and delay a much-needed bridge (over the Forth) or a necessary road extension – yet in other parts of the world foresight means such problems rarely occur. One can travel in comfort (by rail, train or plane) from Singapore to Bangkok via KL – the same cannot be said for the UK. Singapore and Malaysia work on alleviation of poverty, extol the virtues/benefits of education - yet Glasgow/Lanarkshire (Labour held territories for decades) remain some of the most deprived areas in Europe. Deprivation, isolation, low aspiration, no, not the Labour group and Lib Dems at Holyrood - but the benefits of Ms Alexander’s Union Dividend. Perhaps the Scots need a “Look East” policy.
  
  Pro-Unionists also argue “bigger is better”. That by being part of the UK – Scotland’s influence is felt the world over. Why should Scotland seek to be part of UK/US policy failures: Iraq/Afghanistan – now Pakistan (who encouraged Bhutto to venture back if not the US and UK); then there’s Mwai Kibaki in Kenya? (And if so in favour of human rights too, why have Bush, Blair and now Brown done little to address Darfur/Zimbabwe?) It has never been more dangerous to travel with a UK passport. Meanwhile, "small" nations such as Norway play their part on the world stage by assisting the peace process in the likes of Sri Lanka – and even Palestine.
  
  Shared history - is not a propr foundation for a Union either, especially since it has always been a case of "England expects".
  
  The Union was the “marriage” of two nations England and Scotland. Granted England was and still is by far the largest partner in terms of population and economy. However, that does not mean that Scotland should have had to suffer the ignominy of having its identity subverted to the point that it has been downgraded to little more than a northern outpost of another country.
  
  Scotland’s identity has virtually been wiped out by the Union. Many Unionists would like to claim that Scotland is renowned the world over – yet in much of the world, Britain is England – and to be British is to be English. A source of annoyance to Scots and puzzlement to the English who cannot understand this reluctance to assume and rejoice in an “Anglo-Saxon” identity.
  
  I have lived overseas most of my life – in virtually all countries I have had to explain “Scottish” ancestry and why Scotland is “different from” England.
  
  Much of the current ire hurled at Scotland has been because those south of the Border cannot understand why those north of it seek to renounce their “British” (Greater English) identity. To them it smacks of ingratitude. But England’s relationship with Scotland has always been hypocritical given the only time the Union/Scotland is actually recognised – is when Westminster and the English media (and their northern outposts: the Record/Scotsman) feel the Union to be under threat. At all other times its existence is studiously ignored.
  
  Ex-PM Harold Macmillan is perhaps most famous for his “Winds of Change” speech – when referring to independence in Africa. One can only hope that Mr Salmond – and the election of an SNP government will herald a continued wind of change in Scotland.
  
  
  
  
  

• 339. Robert Arnold - Norwich

  Thursday, January 3, 2008 18:32

  Rad: Post 339. I would like to express my agreement and admiration for a very eloquent and inspirational post. Believe that, even though I am English, I am fully aware of the twists and turns of history, and believe that the fairest solution for all concerned is for Scotland and England to part. Though to a lesser extent than yourselves to be sure, I feel that English identity has been subverted by the Union - we all lose. The Union was essentially the English Empire - I mean lets face it. The bitter irony is that in its final throes, the English Empire seeks to conquer itself - England, by refusing it a parliament.
  Though I advocate full independence, all must see that an English Parliament, as part of a more equal Union of Parliaments with powers to decide local issues is the least that we all deserve. While the British State struggles to hold its grip on the Union, the last vestige of Empire, it fails to see that its own people, the English, aren't interested anymore.
  Solidarity to all Patriots. When we are all independent and free, we'll get on a lot better. Then people the World over will know the difference between our nations, and the rich diversity of culture and traditions that there are. I believe in this like others believe in God. Dieu et mon droit? Well, its my right I'm interested in, my right as an Englishman to have my own country, and, de facto, for you Scots to have the same. Solidarity.

• 340. trevor swistchew - edinburgh

  Thursday, January 3, 2008 20:21

  for years labour and tory have run scotland poorly,playing on the misnomer that scotland cant prosper outwith the union.but independence is not only about wealth it is about the people of scotland having the power to determine whether or not particular policies are followed from a sense of self determination or having little say on the direction scotland takes.those who think only the union will do would do well to think about the people in scotland who are not included in the "new" prosperity who are many.those without a home or a job or people who cant afford to buy a home and the pensioners in scotland who choose to eat or heat their place in order to stay warm.the debate is not anti- english it is anti- monopoly anti-nosay in the future of this nation.elderly people die from hypothermia each year scotland independent must stop that and other injustices happening.elected politicians of any party owe it to scotland to work for freedom and for real choice real wealth creation and distribution for the people of scotland.

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